Pushing past limits: Yani Zhao on recovery, powerlifting, and life after leukaemia

[00:02:36] Kate: Welcome to Talking Blood Cancer. I am your host, Kate Aiff. Today I’m speaking with Yani Zhao, who was diagnosed with acute myeloid leukemia at the age of 21. At the time, Yani was at university competing in power lifting at a national level. was fit. Strong and had no reason to think that fatigue and the night sweats she was experiencing were anything more than the result of a busy training schedule.

[00:03:04] Kate: But when those symptoms escalated, she found herself struggling to get through what should have been easy training session. What followed was the urgent hospital admission intensive chemotherapy, difficult conversations about fertility preservation, and the search for a bone marrow donor that ultimately didn’t eventuate.

[00:03:26] Kate: In this conversation, Yani takes us through her treatment journey and the physical and emotional challenges of rebuilding her life afterwards. She also shared how her background in strength training influenced her recovery approach and how eventually, not only did she return to power lifting, but went on to break her previous Australian records.

[00:03:48] Kate: It is a story about redefining strength and taking recovery one step at a time, and also discovering that it is possible to come back even stronger than before.

[00:04:00] Kate: Hi there and welcome to Talking Blood Cancer. My name is Kate Arkadieff, and I am your host. And today we have a really special guest on, and I’m so excited for her, I’ll let her introduce herself.

[00:04:11] Kate:  So as always, if you’re an avid listener, you will know that we asked our guests to introduce themselves, so to let our listeners know who they are, where they’re based in Australia, what they were diagnosed with, and how old they are, and who is in their support network. So I’ll hand it over to you.

[00:04:29] Yani: Hello. Well, first of all, thank you for welcoming me onto the podcast. My name is Yani Zhao. I’m currently based in Sydney, Australia. 29, turning 30 this year. And when I was 21 years old, I was living back home in Melbourne and I was diagnosed with acute myeloid leukaemia. At the time I was still in university studying my Bachelor’s of Health and Physical Education. Living at home with my mom and dad. And, sister had moved out of the house already, but she was always there to support me along the way as well.

[00:05:04] Kate: Wow. And can I ask, you said, that you were in uni, but you know, young and I’m sure active, if you were studying health and physical education. What was happening around the time of diagnosis for you? It’s not a normal thing.

[00:05:19]  Yani: It was in October, 2017, so towards the end of the year. Around the time where we have a lot of university assessments due. I was also preparing for the power lifting national championships at the time as well, for a little external stresses. Trying to keep up with deadlines and competition requirements.

[00:05:42] Yani: I was feeling very, very exhausted, more so than usual, but I just put it down to my competition crap and all my assignments. I actually made it to the Australian National Championships. I think I broke the Australian national record that day.

[00:05:59] Kate: Wow. At what age again? Was it? Sorry?

[00:06:03] Yani: 21.

[00:06:04] Kate: 21, wow.

[00:06:05] Yani: So I think of the day my performance had 195 kilo squat, maybe 115 kilo bench press, and dead lift? And 211 kilo dead lifts.

[00:06:19] Kate: Oh my God. And how tall are you?

[00:06:21] Yani: A hundred and sixty seven, sixty eight centimeters. And I compete in there under 84 kilogram weight class.

[00:06:29] Kate: Oh my gosh.

[00:06:30] Yani: On the day, I already had, lots and lots of blood cancer cells all throughout my body. I just didn’t know it.

[00:06:38] Kate: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:39] Yani: But I still continued on with the competition. And I had these crazy lumps on my neck and on different areas of my body that were quite painful to touch as well. That was my lymph nodes, they were swollen.

[00:06:52] Kate: Right.

[00:06:53] Yani: When I was at the competition, I asked the competition physio, what all these lumps on my body and why do they hurt? This is Pei from PB Physio here in Sydney. She took a look at the lumps and told me that was not normal, and advised me to go see a doctor straight away, as soon as I could. Lucky, she told me to do that. The next day, I went to the doctor. Doctor also wasn’t a hundred percent sure what was wrong with me either, but ordered some blood tests and then the day after that, everything just happened really fast. You know, phone call, go to the emergency, go get more tests, bone marrow biopsy, and then all of a sudden you are getting chemo and living in the hospital.

[00:07:34] Kate: So from going from the weightlifting competition, the super weightlifting competition to then, as you said, you discovered the nodes. I can’t imagine what that phone call would’ve been like. Was it the doctor or the pathologist that gave you that phone call or…?

[00:07:50] Yani: I can’t remember whether it was the doctor or the receptionist at the medical clinic.

[00:07:55] Kate: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:56] Yani: And told me to go to the hospital emergency department. And I told the doctor that I had a shift at work. I was working in the local gym at the time. I need to go to work. Because like this is an emergency. You have to go to the emergency. So then I’ve never called in sick before, to work. So I didn’t even know how to do that ’cause I didn’t look sick. But I wasn’t, like an obvious cold or flu or something like that. And then I… the gym and I said, “oh, I think I’m sick and I can’t be coming to work.”

[00:08:27] Kate: Oh.

[00:08:27] Yani: And the manager wasn’t sure if I was telling the truth or not. 

[00:08:10] Kate: And I bet it would’ve felt very odd for you as well, because as you said, like days before you were winning competitions. And then you said you didn’t have many signs beforehand, so to hear this news and to be in your body. It must have been quite a juxtaposition in a sense.

[00:08:47] Yani: Well, I suppose I did have a lot of signs, but I just didn’t know.

[00:08:51] Kate: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:52] Yani: For example, the extreme fatigue. I had night sweats. I thought maybe the temperature was just getting warmer. My cardiovascular fitness was dropping immensely. I would walk up a flight of stairs and be completely out of breath and I just needed to do a bit more cardio. I mean, thinking, I’ve been doing a lot of strength training recently, took a bit more cardio as well, but turns out it definitely was something a lot more serious about, lots of bruises. 

[00:09:20] Kate: And that is the really tricky thing about blood cancer and a big part of one of our campaigns at the moment is about blood cancer sign and symptoms. Because just as you explained, it’s so easy to go, “oh, that’s because it’s getting a bit warmer, or that’s because X, Y, Z.” And it is quite easy to just dismiss something that’s quite serious.

[00:09:41] Yani: That’s right. And even the extra bruises on my body, I thought I was just walking into things more often without realising.

[00:09:48] Kate: Yeah. Well, you actually did have quite a lot of symptoms.

[00:09:51] Yani: And then when I first went to see the GP about the lumps that were becoming quite painful, I thought I was just going and ask the doctor to give me some strong painkillers, so the pain fell away. But no, the only thing that made the pain go away was obviously chemotherapy.

[00:10:07] Kate: Yeah. And so when you got the news, you were obviously in hospital and did you have anybody with you, did you take any family or anything like that?

[00:10:15] Yani: I think when I first went out, I just went by myself. It was a local hospital. And then obviously when I got more news there then I called my family.

[00:10:23] Kate: Yeah. And then how was it telling that news, I’m guessing over the phone or did you call them to come in?

[00:10:29] Yani: They all came in, as soon as they could. One by one, but obviously they were just in shock. Even the doctors initially were quite in disbelief as well. “Let’s run some more tests. Let’s see if there’s any other possibilities.” But, after the bone marrow biopsy it was confirmed.

[00:10:46] Kate: And then how were you feeling at that point in time?

[00:10:49] Yani: Confused, and then initially, you just don’t believe it. And then after a while you start to come to terms with the situation. But you do – “why me? I’m – oh, I’m fit and I’m healthy. What happened?” And I did ask the doctor as well. The doctors just said it was…, bad luck? So I feel like that really helped me to grow mentally as well, to understand that we don’t have control over everything in our lives. Sometimes we’re just here to have a bit of bad luck. But, all we can do is, just choose to decide how we’re going to take on that information and how we’re gonna respond to the information. There’s just because you get some bad news, doesn’t mean that’s…, that’s the end. 

[00:11:34] Kate: Yeah.

[00:11:35] Yani: I still have control over what I want to do.

[00:11:37] Kate: That’s so powerful and so very true, and it’s, something that, I feel like one day I’ll, sit here and I go, “oh yeah, that rings very true,” and then another day you go, “oh, that’s just so hard to even believe or understand or accept.” Did you have days where you had really positive days and were able to kind of stick by that mantra or…?

[00:11:56] Yani: It took me a while to build up the mental strength to come to terms with everything. Initially, it was a little disbelief and then…, speed in which we started chemotherapy didn’t really give me that much time to second guess everything you just sort of go through the…, follow your treatment as soon as you could.

[00:12:15] Kate: Yeah. And then as you say, that speed of time, was there time to discuss options or fertility preservation or kind of what other treatment may look like down the track?

[00:12:25] Yani: I did have my eggs frozen. However, that was after the chemotherapy Just because, well you need to inject yourself with hormones for a good few weeks before I can do the collection, and we just didn’t have that time. 

[00:12:38] Kate: Yep. And then were you successful in being able to produce some eggs?

[00:12:43] Yani: Yeah. But yeah, I was at the time, 21. You can freeze your eggs for five years, and then after five years, you can request some other renewal. And then after 10 years, I think it’s a bit more complicated to freeze your eggs for longer. So I’m almost reaching that 10-year mark.

[00:13:00] Kate: Yeah. I didn’t even think about that. Does that add another layer of thought, had you kind of contemplated or?

[00:13:07] Yani: Well, in the future, I would like to conceive naturally if possible. But right now I don’t feel like I’m ready to use my eggs.

[00:13:17] Kate: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it is amazing, and I’m sure that through even out, say that eight year period that you’ve been, just how fast medical advances happen in that time.

[00:13:28] Yani: And I remember being in the hospital in 2017 and just thinking, well, if I had gotten this diagnosis even 10, 20 years before that, then my chances of survival would be a lot more slim than right now.

[00:13:44] Kate: Yeah, very, very true. It is amazing how, even I can say in the past couple of years, ’cause did you, I mean we can get into it a bit later, but did you go through a bone marrow transplant or?

[00:13:56] Yani: Ideally, I would have covered it but we couldn’t find a match to myself.

[00:14:00] Kate: Right. 

[00:14:01] Yani: So instead of going through bone transplant, I went through to really strong round, full chemotherapy. However that was able to put me into remission. 

[00:14:11] Kate: Wow. And so usually they do, if they, if you do need to go to transplant, they kind of start looking for a donor quite quickly. 

[00:14:19] Yani: Yeah.

[00:14:20] Kate: Did they start that process for yourself?

[00:14:22]Yani: Yeah, they did. They had a look, obviously starting with my immediate family and then on the external database. But, just wasn’t able to find a match, but that’s okay. Just went through with a few extra rounds of chemo.

[00:14:37]Kate: Yeah. So we were speaking about them searching for a donor for you. So they started that process. Did you happen to have any siblings or anything that they tested first.

[00:14:47] Yani: I have a half-sister, so she wasn’t a match for me.

[00:14:52] Kate: Uh, Right. Yep.

[00:14:53] Yani: Yeah.

[00:14:54] Kate: So then they went straight onto the database? Is that what they…

[00:14:57] Yani: Yeah. my sister and then my parents, and then the database, and then chemotherapy, or more chemotherapy.

[00:15:04] Kate: And how was that chemotherapy for you? Like you mentioned, it was quite intense.

[00:15:09] Yani: Yeah. Oh, I guess the first day or two, you don’t feel it as much until a few days later. Once all the chemicals are running through your body, then you really start to feel it. It’s great because it starts to kill the cancer cells in your body, but obviously, it also wipes everything else out as well. You lose a lot of red blood cells, healthy red blood cells, which you do want because that carries oxygen and a boost of body energy. And without oxygen and without as much energy, you just  feel completely fatigued and deflated all the time.

[00:15:47] Kate: Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:15:49] Yani: There was a lot of mouth ulcers and then, a lot of diarrhea on the other end as well. My skin had all these little gaunts over them, like little gum balls that formed which got worse if I ever sweated a little bit.

[00:16:04] Kate: Were they painful?

[00:16:05] Yani: They were itchy. They weren’t painful. And when I sweat, it’s almost as if there’s chemicals sweating out in my cells.

[00:16:12]  Kate: Yeah. Right. Well, they do say that, don’t they? That at times, you’re sweating it out. It’s a way to release the toxins, et cetera.

[00:16:18] Yani: Well, I think I’m trying to not remember all the things that I had to go through in hospital.

[00:16:23] Kate: Which is fair enough. And you know what? I think that that’s a really good point is, is that, it’s a way of protecting yourself, right? And blocking out the memories of what that usually horrible experience was.

[00:16:35] Yani: Having a lot of stomach pains. There was one time the stomach pain was so bad that I was on the floor and that made me feel nauseous because I just couldn’t bear the pain anymore, and then…

[00:16:48] Kate: Oh.

[00:16:49] Yani: Yeah, I went to the bathroom to throw up. But at the same time, I’m also having diarrhea. And you have so much diarrhea that it actually hurts to… seeing yourself after.

[00:16:59] Kate: Yeah.

[00:17:00] Yani: Well.

[00:17:00] Kate: It’s very raw.

[00:17:01] Yani: Yep.

[00:17:02] Kate: But how did you go with that? All of that as a 21-year-old like that is really intense to take on and your inner space, that’s not your home. You’re exposed, you’re vulnerable. How did you go with that?

[00:17:15]Yani: Honestly. It was really scary, especially at the start when you don’t know what symptoms you’re going to get and then it just all starts coming on. 

[00:17:24] Kate: Mhmm

[00:17:25] Yani: But the thing is that when you are living in hospital, you have amazing support from the doctors and the nurses. 

[00:17:34] Kate: Yeah.

[00:17:34] Yani: I have such a high appreciation for the work that the medical team do for all the patients in hospitals after having lived there for several months. But the good thing as a patient at that time is you have so many people helping to take care of you, and that’s the only thing that you really need to focus on. You just need to focus on getting better. Whereas in real life, you have so many things to try and manage at the same time.

[00:17:59] Kate: Very true.

[00:18:00] Yani: Yeah. And you kind of forget about that and take back into real life and you’re like, “oh, if I don’t do my laundry, there’s more laundry to do.”

[00:18:10] Kate: And then did you have many friends around that supported you? Or how did you manage that time while watching everyone else live their life, but you…, stationary in hospital fighting for yours?

[00:18:22] Yani: Umm… It was very heartwarming to have a lot of my friends, both from high school as well as from my power lifting club, come in to show their support. A lot of the time they’ll, you know, bring me delicious food as well, such as ice cream, which is my favourite food. The girls from the power lifting club, she asks the local KFC, if she could have one of their posters. So she stuck the KFC poster in my room. Just to, you know, brighten up the hospital room a little bit.

[00:18:55] Kate: Yep, and encourage you to eat? Was there times when you didn’t wanna eat with your mouth ulcers?

[00:18:59] Yani: Yes, of course. And…, but you have to eat, you need the nutrients to recover. So a lot of the time, even if I didn’t feel like eating, if the food cart came around with some Big M’s, I would always take a chocolate Big M. ‘Cause I knew at least I could get that down for nutrients, even if I couldn’t, eat any whole foods at that time.

[00:19:23] Kate: Do you think that your training and your prepping for comps came into play for your recovery and during your treatment?

[00:19:31] Yani: For sure. So at the time, the average survival rate across all ages of acute myeloid leukaemia was about 20%.

[00:19:41] Kate: That’s a very scary percentage to hear.

[00:19:44] Yani: That’s right. And I think, I actually didn’t know that until after I recovered. And it was pretty scary statistics, yes. But also at the same time, because I was much younger, obviously had a great level of strength. I was able to bounce back much easier than someone who didn’t have the same level of fitness and strength. So having a level of fitness and strength helps you in all aspects of life, especially in a scary situation where you are going to lose so much strength. If your base level is already quite high, then you have a lot that you can lose while still being able to function. Whereas if it’s already very low and then you lose even more strength, then that’s when it becomes, quite dangerous and, you know, towards immobility and things like that. 

[00:20:32] Kate: Yeah, it becomes even more challenging.

[00:20:34] Yani: Yeah.

[00:20:35] Kate: Did you make a point of, I guess moving, exercising, and I’m not saying power lifting at 200 plus like you were, but was there a point of when, even though you were in hospital, it sounds like you were in hospital for quite some time. Did you add something into your routine daily to kind of stay on top of fitness and strength?

[00:20:54] Yani: Yeah. Well, it really depended on how I felt on the day. First few days when you get to your, chemotherapy and you still have a bit of energy. I did find enjoyment in going outside and doing a bit of yoga. Or I have resistant bands as well where I would do a good old strength training with the resistant bands. And then there were some other days where my energy was light a lot more and all I could do was just walk up and down, walk this little hallway. And some other days where I’m just in bed, I can’t get out. So it just really dependent on how I front on the day.

[00:21:34] Kate: What I really like about that is, is that you really displayed how you honored your body and where you were at each day. And for the days that you could do a little bit more, you would push yourself. But to the days where you just needed to surrender and go, “I need to stay in bed.” That’s amazing. ‘Cause I think it shows everybody that you’re not going to be able to hit every mark every day. But even if you can add a little bit to your strength, ’cause as you’ve beautifully said beforehand, how important it is for your recovery and wellbeing as well.

[00:22:05] Yani: Exactly right. And that’s even for healthy individuals who are trying to work on their health and fitness as well. Sometimes the most important thing is not sticking to a plan a hundred percent, where you have to push yourself to the limit all the time. You’re just showing up and then doing what your body is comfortable with doing that day. Add little bit each time that hits, and sometimes that little bit might be an extra rest day to help channel the full day.

[00:22:37] Kate: Yeah, that is perfect advice. I think it’s sometimes we can fall into that habit where we can. Well, “I’m just gonna let myself rest and I’m gonna give in.” But it is also that resilience and that strength to go, “even though I don’t feel like it at this very moment, I know I’ve got the energy to do a little something that’s gonna help push me or propel me or back onto the road of where I wanna be.” With your power lifting, do you think that your mental resilience came into play as well? Like does resilience come into play with power lifting as well?

[00:23:10] Yani: Definitely. And I definitely feel like having gone through leukaemia and blood cancer, which is such a scary journey, where you really don’t have a choice of how you want your treatment to go, you either choose to be strong and survive, or you just die. That’s the same mindset that I had, in the future, going into my power lifting competitions, is that you need to give it your all otherwise it’s just, I’m not going to give the best performance.

[00:23:40] Kate: Yep.

[00:23:41] Yani: It took me another four years after I finished my final leukaemia chemotherapy round to break Australian squat record again.

[00:23:56] Kate: Really, so did you break your own record again or?

[00:23:56] Yani: Yes.

[00:23:57] Kate: You broke your own record?

[00:23:58] Yani: Yeah, so at the time the record was 202.5 kilos, and then four years later I came back with a 203 kilogram squat.

[00:24:07] Kate: Oh my God. So you came back even stronger.

[00:24:09] Yani: Yeah.

[00:24:10] Kate: Post chemotherapy.

[00:24:12] Yani: Yeah. Surprisingly, the record held there for that long as well.

[00:24:15] Kate: It’s just waiting for you to come and smash it again. That’s what it is.

[00:24:18] Yani: Yeah, it was really good to have something to aim for, especially a number that I knew would be a measure of whether or not I’ve bounced back stronger or not.

[00:24:29] Kate: Mm. And is that something that motivates you? The number that’d be able to measure how far you’ve come?

[00:24:36] Yani: It was a big motivator and it took me four years and I knew once I got out of hospital, there was no way I was going to squat 200 kilos the following day.

[00:24:48] Kate: No, what did you do? You know, I think some of our listeners may be average gym lifters but what did you do? What was the process of getting to be able to break that record? Because as you say, it doesn’t happen the day you walk out of hospital.

[00:25:01] Yani: So there definitely was no timeline for when I wanted to achieve it. I just knew that it was something that I wanted to achieve when my body was ready to. And I just evaluated more shorter term goals that were more achievable, that motivated me to keep going. So when I first came out of hospital, I lost a lot of muscle and a lot of fitness. So my initial goals were just to be able to go for a 200 meter walk without losing my breath as much.

[00:25:38] Kate: Yep.

[00:25:39] Yani: And then after I achieved that, then I set a new goal. And the new goal was to, compete in a power lifting competition again. However, with no numerical goals at all. The goal itself was just to enter the competition. That was great because it helped me set up the new training routine again. My strength was a fraction of what it used to be. However, just having the training sessions that I knew I needed to show up for every single week, which will be a building block towards the competition kept me motivated. And then after that first competition, that was in August, 2018, so almost a year after I was first diagnosed.

[00:26:24] Kate: And gone through incredibly intensive treatment ’cause you had to go through a number of rounds ’cause you didn’t have a bone marrow transplant. 

[00:26:31] Yani: Yeah, that’s right. I had very, very short hair and I thought I looked very cute.

[00:26:37] Kate: Yeah. Um.

[00:26:38] Yani: …at that competition. And then, yeah, because I had my competition result from that first competition back I knew where I needed to aim a little higher from for the following competitions that I did after that and yeah, three years later, I rebroke this Australian squat record again.

[00:26:57] Kate: That is incredible. What was your doctor’s thoughts? Like did you consult with your doctors? ‘Cause I imagine lifting heavy weights, making sure that all your levels and platelets, et cetera, are at, like the way where they want them to be. Was that tricky to manage or they were supportive?

[00:27:13] Yani: Didn’t have any concerns with my power lifting competition side of things. They stuck to their routine of making sure that I showed up every, initially three months and then six months for my bone marrows and blood tests and just making sure all my markers were in check.

[00:27:30] Kate: And how did you manage, having gone through that such intense period of being at the hospital, you explained, and said how much comfort you got from the hospital and being with that supportive team. What was that transition like for you out of that acute care?

[00:27:45] Yani: True. I was discharged from hospital at the end of 2017, and then in January, 2018 I was an outpatient, living at home, but still going in for extra blood transfusions, platelet transfusions, and tests. I felt like that was a good way to ease back into normal life. Where you, to live in the comfort of your own home and then still go into hospital for your care plan. And in March I returned back to university. However, I did go back to university with a reduced study load. I didn’t feel ready to go back full-time and finish my final year of university. By pushing myself, I knew that my health just needed me to take it a little bit slower. So, my year level course coordinator was able to help me redesign my pathway and I was able to make it over two years as step one. Which was really, really helpful. Because your health is number one. You can’t do anything else, and even if you get that university degree any earlier it’s not really gonna change that much in the grand scheme of things, if it would help.

[00:28:59]Kate: Absolutely. If your health isn’t in the top position and isn’t in top order, you very much know that you’ve experienced, everything else stops and subsides.

[00:29:08] Yani: The funny thing is I completed my university degree two years later, my health and physical education as well as mathematics teaching degree, but then I didn’t even end up teaching after that.

[00:29:18] Kate: Oh, didn’t you? Oh, what path did you go down?

[00:29:21]  Yani: I was working part-time in the gym all throughout university, and once I finished university, I started working full-time in the gym.

[00:29:29]Kate: Oh wow.

[00:29:30] Yani: Yes. And now I work as a full-time strength coach, as well as online strength coach as well.

[00:29:35] Kate: That’s incredible.

[00:29:36] Yani: Yeah, and I love what I do. If I win the TattsLotto one day, I’m still coaching everyone just as a hobby.

[00:29:47] Kate: Aww, amazing. And what makes you love it so much?

[00:29:51]Yani: You are improving someone’s quality of life and the amount of benefit of helping someone who has no fitness experience and then helping them build strength and fitness in the gym. And then see them carry that strength over into normal everyday life is game-changing, life-changing. There’s even small things that you wouldn’t think about, such as a client messaging me and saying, oh my God, now I can open the jars at home all by myself.

[00:30:23] Kate: Did you have that appreciation and that, that lens before your journey of blood cancer? Cause I’m interested to see that going through what you went through, your strength being very much peeled back to the bare bones.

[00:30:37] Yani: Hmm.

[00:30:37]Kate: And then having to build it back up again.

[00:30:40] Yani: Yeah, it was definitely quite a contrast going from an elite level athlete where, you know, my body felt very firm and sturdy all the time to all of a sudden, oh, squish my legs. I’m like, “wow, my legs are soft.” So it definitely was, a very different feeling. And then just being back in the gym and feeling completely humbled by how heavy weights felt that used to be super light.

[00:31:11] Kate: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:12] Yani: But the funny thing is, even when I first returned back to the gym and I was only able to bench, I think 70 kilos at the time, after…,

[00:31:20] Kate: That’s still incredible. That is absolutely amazing. I am a healthy person at this minute, and I do. I am unsure if I could do that. That’s amazing. 

[00:31:30] Yani: Thank you. I think sometimes my perception of strength is also a little bit morphed because I feel quite weak for my standards, but then I think of the greater scale and realise, wait a minute, that’s still very strong.

[00:31:45] Kate: Yes, it is.

[00:31:46] Yani: And I think a lot of people who train in the gym do make comparisons for other people who can train in the gym or other top level athletes as well and feel like they’re not enough. But the truth is the only person who you need to compare yourself to is the person who you were yesterday, as long as you are stronger than that, then you are already winning.

[00:32:09]Kate: Yeah, and also I think it’s too…, not physically strong, it’s also mentally strong as well. Is that’s so important as to know that both of those together, I don’t think you can do one without the other.

[00:32:19] Yani: Definitely. Yeah. It goes hand in hand.

[00:32:22] Kate: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:23]  Yani: One of the biggest challenges that I’ve had after my treatment and after going back into power lifting was actually preparing for my bodybuilding shows.

[00:32:34]  Kate: Really, you did bodybuilding after all of this?

[00:32:36] Yani: I did, I did. I sort of felt like, oh, I rebroke my Australian squat record. What do I wanna do next now?

[00:32:44] Kate: Yeah.

[00:32:45] Yani: Challenge through bodybuilding.

[00:32:47] Kate: Well, and how, how was that journey in that space?

[00:32:50] Yani: It’s funny because sometimes I joke and tell people, wow, this, this bodybuilding journey feels harder than recovering from leukaemia.

[00:32:58] Kate: Really?

[00:32:59] Yani: It’s…, with leukaemia, you didn’t choose to put yourself into that situation.

[00:33:05] Kate: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:06] Yani: But once you’re in that situation, you have such amazing support to help you recover. 

[00:33:12] Kate: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:13] Yani: However, with bodybuilding, you’re choosing to make yourself suffer.

[00:33:18] Kate: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. And when you say you had other people to support you in your recovery and versus bodybuilding, you don’t, who did you have in your team to help you recover?

[00:33:31] Yani: When I was in hospital, I had my doctors and nurses, my, immediate family, my parents, my sister, and then, my friends as well, whether that be from high school, university, or from the power lifting club, had a massive support network…

[00:33:51] Kate: Yes,

[00:33:51] Yani:  … who was cheering for me every step of the way.

[00:33:53] Kate: yes.

[00:33:52] Yani: Which I was super grateful for.

[00:33:55] Kate: Yeah, and though, you know, it’s interesting you say that you, I mean, I’m not entirely sure of your body building journey, but you know, you say, oh, it was all on you. But also I do believe that the leukaemia journey, you have your network of support around you. But as we’ve kind of spoken about in this episode, it is all about you making that decision and making that choice to improve yourself or to try and improve your strength, your mental fitness, et cetera, that it is really all on you as well.

[00:34:21] Yani: Yeah, I would say that, when you are in hospital, you do get a lot of reflection time. And a lot of time where you get to have a think about, you know, what’s important in life, what your goals are, what does all of this mean? And it’s a really good opportunity to actually educate yourself a little bit more as well. Obviously when I was first diagnosed with leukaemia, I had no idea what leukaemia was. 

[00:34:52] Kate: Mm-hmm

[00:34:53] Yani: So it was a great opportunity to be in hospital. And at the time it was a lot of information booklets that I read through, just finding out about, okay, “what is cancer? What is blood cancer? What are the symptoms?” And then, “what do people do to recover from this?” And then “what are some things that people do after they get out of hospital to help them ease back into either work or study as well.” And that’s where I’ve decided that I’m gonna go back into my normal life soon, but it doesn’t need to be the same or where I left. It’s going to be adjusted.

[00:35:31] Kate: Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:31] Yani: And I still have the rest of my life ahead of me.

[00:35:35] Kate: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:36] Yani: To design however I want to design it.

[00:35:39] Kate: That’s a really powerful reflection that you’ve had there and I couldn’t agree more. And it’s, I think some people, they have that, desire to go, “oh, I’m just gonna jump back in straight a bull at a gate as soon as I’m let out of these hospital walls.” But it’s, you really have to be kind to yourself, don’t you? To go, as you said, ease back in and I can design life as to how I can and adapt in the future.

[00:36:03] Yani: Yeah, that’s right. So for the listeners, I just also want everyone to stop and reflect on what’s important and asking yourself if there really is a rush to go back and do anything. 

[00:36:18] Kate: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:18] Yani: Or whether there is another way…

[00:36:21] Kate: Mm-hmm, yeah.

[00:36:21] Yani:  …align with you much better now.

[00:36:23] Kate: Yeah. And do you think that by you holding onto that view and that reflection, do you think it helped transition you back smoother, easier, into life? Whereas if you had to battle your mind to go, “oh, I wanna rush back in or do this.” I’m sure you may have had those moments, but do you think by just accepting and surrendering to where you were at, helped that transition?

[00:36:46] Yani: Definitely, it definitely helps you reduce a layer of stress.

[00:36:51] Kate: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:51] Yani: By adjusting your lifestyle to one that’s more manageable and I do feel like having high levels of stress is something that may cause a lot of people to get sick in the first place.

[00:37:05] Kate: Mhmm, yeah.

[00:37:06] Yani: And it’s definitely something that we wanna try and keep a hold over. And sometimes that may actually mean having stress management techniques that we implement into our daily lives as well.

[00:37:20] Kate: Do you do that now? 

[00:37:21] Yani: It depends. 

[00:37:22] Kate: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:22] Yani: Sometimes, if I feel like I’ve got a lot on my plate, then I might just do something really simple, such as some deep breathing to help me calm myself down again. And even just 15 seconds of deep breathing on a spot can reduce your heart rate, reduce your breathing, and reduce the stress and overwhelm that you’re going through at the time. And then other times, I might go outside. If it’s a sunny day, that’s always a win.

[00:37:52] Kate: Yeah.

[00:37:52] Yani: …, A bonus, some vitamin D. Yoga and meditation is also fantastic for bringing down your stress levels. It would be great if I had it in a regular routine, but at the moment I just do it when I feel like I need to do it.

[00:38:09] Kate: Yeah.

[00:38:10] Yani: In our current lives, we have so much artificial stress that we put on ourselves all the time. So sometimes we actually do need to use these techniques to bring down the stress again. 

[00:38:24]Kate: Absolutely. And did you use any of those techniques in hospitals or was it post that experience, you’ve brought those into your routine?

[00:38:32] Yani: In hospital, I did practice yoga when I was able to. And I really enjoyed that. Because yoga, you can pick what level and what style of yoga you want to do. Whether you want something a little bit more intense that’s more like a workout or something a little bit more gentle and a little bit more mindful as well. Just to keep the body moving and help you align yourself with your mind and your body. It’s a great feeling to have.

[00:39:04] Kate: Absolutely. Oh, very, very true. You’ve beautifully weaved some golden nuggets. We always talk about, at the end of the episode, weaving in some golden nuggets and some words of wisdom, and you’ve really already done that. And it’s, I think it’s so important for people to hear is that you’ve said like you can choose your level of yoga, you can do chair yoga. 

[00:39:23] Kate: It doesn’t have to be strenuous, like you said, is it? It can be just that simple stretching and moving of the body in, um, as you said, sync with your mind as well.

[00:39:34] Yani: Exactly right, or even if you are not able to get out of your hospital bed. Just practicing some meditation.

[00:39:42] Kate: Mm-hmm.

[00:39:42] Yani: And breathing in your hospital bed can help calm the nervous system as well.

[00:39:48] Kate: Mm. I remember, I do remember a guy that I was supporting and he was very big into his breathing and meditation as well. And he spoke about how he would do breathing every morning. And the nurses were so concerned that his heart rate and blood pressure was so low because he had brought it down within his breath work that he went, “oh no, it’s because I’ve been doing all my breathing and what not.” And so they came back an hour later and they could see the difference that it had on the body. The changes it had, which is incredible.

[00:40:20] Yani: Absolutely incredible and definitely worthwhile for almost everyone to incorporate into their lives.

[00:40:27] Kate: Mm, mm so true. And I think also too, for carers as well. Carers sit there with a lot of stress and they’re watching so much go on in front of them that sometimes they don’t feel like they wanna pull themselves away from the patient to give back to them. But as you beautifully said, sitting in the chair and just breathing through what’s going on…

[00:40:46] Yani: Yeah,

[00:40:47] Kate: is really important.

[00:40:48] Yani: Definitely. And having my mom been sick recently, I would say that a lot of the time carers go through more stress than the patients themselves. Because as much as the carers want to help, sometimes they do feel helpless as well, which can increase the stress tenfold.

[00:41:10] Kate: Absolutely.

[00:41:10] Yani: And the most important thing to remember as a carer is you can only care for people if you are fit and healthy yourself.

[00:41:18] Kate: Mhmm.

[00:41:19] Yani: And the most important person to take care of is actually yourself.

[00:41:23] Kate: Mhmm.

[00:41:23] Yani: Making sure that you’re getting enough sleep and recovery. You are fueling yourself with nutrients, getting in as much exercise and sunshine as you can. And by being the best version of yourself, you will then therefore give them the best care that you can.

[00:41:39] Kate: So true, and I think that there are moments when it is impossible to put yourself first, when things are quite intense. But it’s that resilient and that muscle memory and that goodness that you’ve given to your body that will pay off when there’s those moments that you can’t give back to yourself. So if you can do it when your patient is out of hospital and you know that’s your moment to go and to give back to yourself, ensuring you’re eating nutritious foods. I understand that going back and forth through the hospital at times when it’s really intense, you may not have every break, but to be able to give back in those moments that can…,

[00:42:12] Yani: Yeah

[00:42:13] Kate: …is so important.

[00:42:15] Yani: Of course, and I’ll definitely say one of the best things that anyone could do, is to try and be as organised as they can. 

[00:42:24] Kate: Yeah.

[00:42:25] Yani: So, for example, if you’re trying to take care of yourself and you find that you just don’t have time to exercise or I don’t have time to cook a healthy meal. But if you pre-plan at the start of the week..,

[00:42:39] Kate: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:39] Yani: …what healthy meals you’re going to eat throughout the week, and maybe you prep a few days worth of food. Then you don’t need to think about it anymore. You already have food ready at the fridge. Or you’ve already decided which mornings you are going to get up a little bit earlier to do a little bit of exercise, then you don’t need to find time throughout the day to try and squeeze in exercise anymore because you already planned at the start of the week: “this is what I’m going to do to take care of myself.”

[00:43:09] Kate:  Mm-hmm.

[00:43:09] Yani:  …And by taking care of myself, I’ll be able to take care of other people much better too.

[00:43:13] Kate: Absolutely. It’s prioritising, isn’t it? Prioritising yourself and allowing yourself to have that and deserve that.

[00:43:21] Yani: Yes.

[00:43:22] Kate: Mm-hmm.

[00:43:22] Yani: Being kinder to ourselves.

[00:43:24] Kate: Absolutely. I was thinking, and if you don’t mind jumping back, I just wanted to ask you about, ’cause I know that sometimes it’s a number of people’s fears and that fear is to not find a donor, and that was… You know, that unfolded for you where a donor wasn’t found? How was that for you? Did you struggle when you heard that there was no donor? Because some people think then, “that’s it,” but in your case, that’s not it.

[00:43:50] Yani: Well, it was unfortunate that we weren’t able to find a match for me because that would’ve been the best treatment plan. But the good thing was that there was other options. 

[00:44:02] Kate: Mm-hmm

[00:44:02] Yani:  And I’m sure anyone else would be able to discuss with their doctor what their options are. And that was chemotherapy and then more chemotherapy.

[00:44:13]Kate: Yeah, and did you struggle mentally though, hearing “oh there’s no donor” but or were you just open to accepting “oh but that’s okay there’s other options”?

[00:44:23] Yani: Yeah, I guess. There wasn’t really much point in stressing about the fact that there wasn’t a donor because there’s nothing that I could do about that.

[00:44:32] Kate: Yeah.

[00:44:32] Yani: The only thing that I could do was to start focusing on the next thing, which was the next best option.

[00:44:38] Kate: Mm-hmm.

[00:44:38] Yani: And going with that.

[00:44:41] Kate: Yeah, that’s really true, and look at it. Look where, you know, and I think that’s, the thought in this as well is, is that, that is the gold star to go through the BMT if that’s what’s needed. And that wasn’t achieved for you. But here you are, what you said, eight years on, and you’ve achieved what would be the same result as a bone marrow transplant as well.

[00:45:00] Yani: Exactly right. So it really doesn’t matter at the end of the day. What matters the most is how you look after yourself after you finish a treatment.

[00:45:09] Kate: Yeah.

[00:45:10] Yani: Building the life that you want after you finish your treatment.

[00:45:13] Kate: And did you make that your purpose and goal?

[00:45:16] Yani: I would say that my purpose and goal changed a lot throughout the years.

[00:45:21] Kate: Oh, well, I guess you were studying to become a teacher, wasn’t it?

[00:45:25] Yani: Yes, that’s right. That’s right. And I suppose I still incorporate teaching in my current role as a coach, which is helping everyone work on their health and fitness.

[00:45:37] Kate: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:38] Yani: Just on, more on a smaller scale, on a one-on-one or small group or online setting, rather than, in a classroom setting.

[00:45:46] Kate: Yeah, it’s just different. Life always unfolds differently. Sometimes it’s not the way we expect it, but yeah, it surprises us, doesn’t it?

[00:45:55] Yani: Life is full of surprises whether you like it or not.

[00:45:58] Kate: Absolutely. Absolutely. And how did your parents go from in watching you being unwell to then transitioning back into normal life and study, were they, happy and supportive or were they like, “No, no, no, no. Slow down.”

[00:46:11] Yani: I would say that my parents were as supportive as they could be. They were at the hospital every single day, to be by my side, which I definitely felt, and, sometimes bringing in some home cooked meals as well, which I really appreciated. Returning back to study, obviously I decided that I wanted to go back part-time and they didn’t really have any objections.

[00:46:40] Yani: The only objection that my mom had at the end of my degree was, “why are you not a teacher?”

[00:46:46] Kate: Just looks a bit different, mum.

[00:46:48] Yani: Yeah. Just like you just studied all these years and you’re not using your degree.

[00:46:54] Kate: You do, you are using it, as you said, you’re just using it in a different way now, aren’t you?

[00:46:58] Yani:  Exactly right.

[00:46:58] Kate: Yeah. Yeah. And then, so I know recently you’ve been able to go back and compete again. So did you wanna tell our listeners about the experience that you’ve had recently or even how you broke the record years ago, but where you are in your strength and recovery today?

[00:47:16]  Yani: Yes. So, this year in June, I competed at the Power Lifting World Championships in Germany. 

[00:47:24] Kate: Wow.

[00:47:24] Yani: It was my first world championship since 2017. The year I was diagnosed with leukaemia.

[00:47:25] Kate: Mm-hmm.

[00:47:31] Yani: So it was a very heartwarming moment to be able to be back on the world stage again, knowing that I earned my position to be on the Australian team. Being overseas, I was able to connect with some old athletes who I used to compete with from a long time ago. And then also get to meet a lot of the newer athletes, who’ve emerged over the last eight years as well. And just feel really inspired by how strong everyone is. But sometimes you don’t know what the limits are until you see what is possible, and then it makes you realise that even what is possible right now, there could still be more possibilities of how much stronger people can get. People that haven’t gotten there just yet, but it is possible.

[00:48:22] Kate: I really love that, and I was listening to you going, I know you’re speaking about your power lifting, but I go, there is something in that that I think every person going through a blood cancer journey can grab onto. It’s that there’s always possible, you don’t know the limits of how far you can push yourself or how far or how strong you are physically, mentally, as well.

[00:48:44] Yani: The only limit is the limit in your head.

[00:48:48] Kate: Mm, so true. Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:48:52] Yani: And when I first started power lifting, and I actually thought that a 200 kilogram squat by a female was impossible because it wasn’t done in Australia before. And one day I squatted over 200 kilos and then I realised, wow, it is possible.

[00:49:12] Kate: Yeah.

[00:49:13] Yani: What more is the limit? That’s the same as, a great analogy for everyone else in life as well. Just gotta keep yourself to be a little bit stronger, to be a little bit better, and you may surprise yourself as well.

[00:49:28] Kate: Absolutely. What more is the limit? I could see that in a bumper sticker. I think we might.

[00:49:35] Yani: Well, bring it back to the Mean Girls movie: “The limit does not exist.”

[00:49:39] Kate: The limit? Yes, I do. The limit does not exist. Oh, wow. And you said that to stare in an awe of everybody on that world stage again of how strong they are. Did you have a moment though, in that minute to go? “Wow, to get back here. I’ve had to fight much harder than many other people.” I had to fight for my life. Then I had to fight for my strength to build back up. And then on top of that, get ready to compete again at a world level. 

[00:50:05] Yani:  I was very proud of myself for being back on that world stage again because I know that all the battles that I’ve had to fought. At the same time, everyone goes through their own challenges in life and you just don’t know what sort of challenges everyone’s going through. 

[00:50:21] Kate: Mm-hmm.

[00:50:21] Yani: So I know that everyone who was at that world stage very much fought and deserved that spot there. It’s a lovely journey and it’s a very strengthening journey as well to be surrounded by people who are just so strong too.

[00:50:40] Kate: Mm-hmm. 

[00:50:41] Yani: The people who you surround yourself with is going to be a version of yourself as well.

[00:50:48]Kate: Mm, so true. It is. It’s about who you surround yourself with, and it’s about having that positive energy, and it’s not being toxic positivity, but it’s just about being.., 

[00:50:58] Yani: Yeah.

[00:50:58] Kate: It’s about how you view and perceive things, isn’t it? That’s something we can control.

[00:51:03] Yani: And that’s one of the great things about this podcast as well is even if you’re not physically able to be with certain circle or any particular person, but you can tune in with the podcast and people who have gone through similar blood cancer journeys as well to find out the possibilities there are throughout blood cancer and after blood cancer too.

[00:51:29] Kate: Absolutely. And to adapt it to you, like as you said, it’s all about adapting to your ability and, what’s your limit?

[00:51:36] Yani: The limit does not exist.

[00:51:38] Kate: The limit does not exist. Usually, I’m very aware of time. We’ve been, talking almost near on an hour, and I wanna ask you, because it’s what we always do, it’s routine, but is there any golden nuggets? But you have beautifully done that throughout the episode. But I will ask you again in case there’s anything that you would like to share, any words of wisdom. Is there anything else you would like to leave our listeners with?

[00:52:01] Yani: I guess it is just that, where you are right now or the blood cancer diagnosis that has put a pause on your life does not dictate the rest of your life. You are still the painter and the artist of the rest of your life that’s to come.

[00:52:19] Kate: I couldn’t have said that better myself. That’s incredible. I really do love that. Thank you so much for your time, your story, and also your inspiration as well. It’s so important to know that as you said, life may be paused, but there’s so much more ahead and you are living vision of that. And we here at the Leukaemia Foundation, thank you, but also wish you all the very best and a very healthy and strong life ahead of you.

[00:52:49] Yani: Thank you so much for having me on the podcast.

[00:52:51] Kate: Oh, it’s my pleasure.