Leading with compassion: Chris Tanti’s vision for the Leukemia Foundation’s Support

[00:02:37] Kate: Welcome to Talking Blood Cancer. I am your host, Kate Arkadieff. Today we are taking a different approach from our usual patient-focused episodes. Instead of diving into the personal stories of diagnosis and treatment, we’re stepping back to look at the bigger picture of blood cancer support in Australia through the lens from the Leukaemia Foundation.

[00:02:57] Kate: I am thrilled to be joined by Chris Tanti, the CEO of the Leukaemia Foundation, who brings a wealth of experience from his background and social work and leadership across health and community services. Chris has a unique perspective on how personal and professional experiences can shape the way we support people living with blood cancer.

[00:03:19] Kate: In our conversation we’ll explore how the Leukaemia Foundation puts patient lived experience at the heart of everything we do, addressing not just the medical needs, but the crucial psychosocial support that patients and families require. We’ll discuss the vital role of family, community, and finding purpose in the journey beyond treatment.

[00:03:40] Kate: Chris will share some exciting plans for expanding support into regional Australia. So whether you are a patient, a family member, a carer, or a healthcare professional, this episode offers valuable insights into the broader landscape of blood cancer support the Leukaemia Foundation’s commitment. To ensuring that nobody faces this journey alone.

[00:04:03] Kate: So, let’s dive in.

[00:04:04] Kate: Hi there, and welcome to Talking Blood Cancer. My name is Kate Arkadieff, and I am your host today. And today we have a very special guest on the podcast. Usually they are a patient. However, today we have brought our CEO of the Leukaemia Foundation. So what I’ll do, I will get him to introduce himself and let us know where he is based in Australia and also who is in his support network.

[00:04:27] Chris: Thanks, Kate. Hi, I am Chris Tanti. I’m the CEO of the Leukaemia Foundation. I’m based in St. Kilda in Melbourne. Although I’m very rarely there, I generally tend to be on a plane flying elsewhere. I am married with two children, one’s about to hit her twenties, the other one is 22. And have a rather large extended family is pretty important to me and I guess they’re my support networks mostly.

[00:04:54] Kate: Yeah. I do remember you saying you’re from a big family. You have a big family don’t you? Is it, are you one of seven or six?

[00:04:54] Chris: I’m one of seven. I’m right in the middle of it. So my mother had two sets of twins, so she had seven kids under the age of five. And, it was a crazy household, and then I had an extended family beyond that with my aunts and uncles and cousins, and we still all see each other. Very strong family ties.

[00:05:17] Kate: And I think, especially having worked here at the foundation, you really do see the fruits of a family and how they can change a journey for somebody.

[00:05:27] Chris: Yeah, they really can.

[00:05:28] Kate: So obviously you’re the CEO, but what’s been your background, and from the family of seven, where’s been your career path that’s led you to where you are today?

[00:05:38] Chris: Look, I think for a long time I didn’t know what I was gonna do with my life. And I remember my father saying to me, “An arts degree is good, but it won’t get you a job.” And, so I started life doing that. My tertiary space was in arts and economics and sociology and politics, and I loved my arts degree. Really, it was very different to high school for me. And, school was not necessarily something I enjoyed, but university is something I really threw myself into. It was something that I really liked. After I finished my degree, I didn’t know what I was gonna do, so I traveled again. Travel is one of those things in my life that is a constant. I love experiencing in different cultures and going to different places and et cetera. And, so I did that and then, came back and, I’ve had any number of jobs over the years from nursing assistant work to picture framing to, you name it, I’ve done it.

So I got back from overseas and decided I was gonna own a cafe. And so I started up a cafe and then while I was doing that, decided that I didn’t like owning a cafe. But the thing that it introduced me to, ’cause it was in a part of Melbourne where there were a lot of university students. And the thing that it introduced me to was, young people who are really struggling with university, struggling at a particular stage in their life, connections with others, relationships, the significant number of mental health issues, and they would stay after we closed and we would talk. And it suddenly dawned on me that. This was something I loved doing. I really loved supporting people, even though I was not qualified to do that.

And so my next job, once I sold the cafe was to work in disability services. And then I was sold. That’s what I was gonna do. And so while I was doing that, I applied for social work, got into social work, law and psychology and decided that – social work.

[00:07:24] Kate: So you’re an overachiever.

[00:07:24] Chris: Yeah. And so I did social work, and I’ve never looked back. It was the best thing I ever did.

[00:07:29] Kate: It is such an incre-, I mean, my background’s social work as well and my career path, and it really is that space where you get to the nuts and bolts of helping people, don’t you?

[00:07:39] Chris: Yeah, you do. And you can do it in a number of different ways. So you can do it, as with structural and systems reform, or you can do the one-on-one, which is what I did for a long period of time. The sort of counseling, psychotherapy. People say this, and I think it’s true that it’s such a privilege working with other people and being led into their lives. And being led into their history and their trauma and it really is a privilege and I love doing it. And I think the thing that I discovered throughout that journey of working as a case manager and then as a psychotherapist and, the thing I discovered was that the system was letting us all down.

I’ve moved into the big picture and started to think about how systems were formed and shaped and how they delivered things for other people. And largely what I found is that, systems over time serve themselves, and they forget about the reason they’re there, the reason they’re funded, the reason they exist, and that’s what the patient need and their families need.

[00:08:34] Kate: Yeah. And do you think that’s your point of difference being a CEO? You’ve been that clinician, you’ve been in the roots of the systems and sitting with people in that trauma that it’s given you that, that experience of going, I’ve done the work and I know how frustrating those systems and roadblocks can be for people who are trying to work within a team and work within an organisation.

[00:08:55] Chris: Yeah, I know a number of CEOs in the health space, some of whom have function as clinicians and others who haven’t. And they’re both very good. But having that clinical experience gives you a bit of an edge and also having the lived experience of a mental health issue or a cancer or, I mean I think those things are incredibly helpful ’cause you really know what people go through ’cause you see it all the time. And you experience it yourself. There is something about exposure in that regard that I think does make a difference.

[00:08:55] Kate: Yeah, absolutely. And what was it that, you’ve been with us now for four years. What is it that draw you to apply to work for the Leukaemia Foundation?

[00:09:35] Chris: Couple of things. My earliest memory of a funeral is a classmate of mine, I think I was probably five, who died of leukaemia. And the trauma that created in the school and the trauma, you could, see it with her parents. And so before that, I hadn’t really known death, right? So that the word leukaemia stayed with me for a really long period of time. And so when the job came up, I thought, oh, how interesting. And the other thing for me was, when I’d been in social work for about five years and I was on a scholarship to Mount Sinai Hospital in New York. And I was getting broad exposure, various patients and various departments within the hospital. And, one of the departments I got exposed to was oncology. And I would always spend a long time with patients and so I was spending time with patients and families and having conversations with them. And then we went into a sort of ground, type arrangement and everyone was talking about treatment and drugs and protocols and stupidly, I asked the question, “Who’s attending to the psychosocial needs of the patients and the families?” And, one of the oncologists said, “Oh, that’s a really interesting question, but it’s not our job.”

I said, “You’ve got a whole lot of distressed people out there.” And they said, “Yeah, but it’s not, our job’s to kill the cancer.” And I said, “Oh, okay” and it really stuck with me that, when we think about diagnosis and prognosis and treatment and all those sorts of things, we can lose the human aspect in all of it. And I think that’s what happened in that case, and I think it happens across the board. So I was curious to see whether we’d evolved over, I think it’d been roughly 20 years since I’d had that experience and I was curious to see whether we’d evolved. And, in some respects we have, in some other respects we haven’t. But, the Leukaemia Foundation had a great name and it was community-based. I’m not a big fan of hospitals, but I don’t enjoy working in those environments. I enjoy working in a community setting.

And it was really set up to make sure that people had their basic needs met. The early days it was a bit of medical equipment, and yes, we continue to fund research, but really it was about making sure that people had somewhere to stay when they were coming to the city to get treatment. And people were supported through that process, psychologically, and that we could try in some way ease the burden financially for people. Given my social work training and basic needs, et cetera, et cetera, and Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, this was an organisation that really ticked a lot of those boxes for me.

[00:09:35] Kate: It does. And I think that you’re really right there that we do, some of our listeners might not know what the Maslow Hierarchy of Needs, but it is really about providing those basic needs that are needed to sustain a really well-rounded, safe life in a sense that, for people that are traveling from out in that rural space that are needing to come into town, that they wouldn’t have a house. So we were able to provide that, and then we were able to provide psychological safety in providing that one-on-one connection. So, I agree with you. I think that we do really meet people in that well-rounded care. And although we do sit on the outside of the hospital, we still have those really impactful interactions with people and also in the hospital as well.

[00:12:33] Chris: Yeah.

[00:12:34] Kate: Yeah. And would you say that really is the North Star of the Leukaemia Foundation is trying to meet the patient and I guess client’s needs.

[00:12:43] Chris: Yeah, I think it is. I think, when I talk to the board and when I talk to others within the organisation, they’re absolutely passionate about those things. That they’re also passionate about trying to find a cure. And of course, ourselves don’t do research, but we network with a whole lot of people that do. And so we’re constantly looking at the evidence-based and how we might make a contribution to the evidence. And so the Blood Cancer Taskforce was an important part of that. But ultimately, what we’re here to do is make sure that the patient journey is as comfortable as it can possibly be.

If you think about. And I’m sure there are people that are listening to this who have had this experience where they get diagnosed or their children get diagnosed and they have to leave work to look after their child. And of course, both people, both parents wanna be there for their child and… But how do you maintain the mortgage while you’re doing that? How do you keep the lights on? How do you pay your registration, et cetera? So your expenses don’t shift. They don’t change. And if you are the breadwinner of the family and you’ve been diagnosed, then we know this, Kate. We know that people have to mortgage their houses and, they have to sell their houses to get treatment. The diagnosis of cancer is bad enough. And then there are a whole lot of other things that come into play in that space that really, potentially really cripple people.

[00:13:54] Kate: Absolutely. And your life doesn’t stop when a diagnosis walks in the door and nobody welcomes it in with open arms because it really knocks people out of the water. And you’ve mentioned the word trauma a number of times, and that’s what this journey is. It smacks people with an unwelcomed amount of trauma and, in so many different areas, and it ripples through families.

[00:14:18] Chris: Yeah, correct. Exactly. And, to think about really is… I was talking to one of our patients recently who just said, they were trying to keep strong for their families. And so no one was really looking after them. He was looking after everybody in the family, his parents, his partner, his young child, and his friends. And, there was enormous pressure on him to, not share how difficult the whole thing was for him. And how scared he was actually with what he was going through. ‘Cause and we know in the middle of treatment, we know once you’re diagnosed and when you’re in the middle of treatment, things can go really well or they can not go so well at all.

And you sit in no man’s land for a long period of time. So he was spending all that time looking after everybody else, and no one was really looking after him. And dealing with some of those existential questions that he had around, “Okay, what does this mean for me and what does this mean for my future? And what about my career? I thought I was gonna be doing this with my life. I thought I was gonna be raising a family. Maybe I’m not gonna be doing any of those things,” I mean these are bitter pills to swallow at the age of 30.

[00:14:18] Kate: And you hear from people how much trust is then knocked out of them as well, with their body. And trusting in the medical process and giving away that control as well. Like, your body’s let you down once, how is it not gonna do it again?

[00:15:40] Chris: Yep, exactly. And then, no one really describes how toxic treatment can be and how it can leave you feel. So you might knock off the cancer, but you’ve just inherited a whole lot of other things that you have to deal with and manage. And, it is a lifelong journey; if you’re cancer-free after a particular time, most people will have something else to deal with, and it will be lifelong.

[00:16:01] Kate: And you know here on the pod we’ve already recorded, and it’s about to be released this week, is Ash Bell, who works in your office down in Melbourne. And we really spoke about how she went through treatment and then she completed it around the age of 15. And they were like, “Okay, now off you go. Go back to be a normal kid.” Or you know, have heard it before from adults. “Go back and be that normal.” But we know, and we as clinicians know that you can’t go through something this significant and be that person you once were.

[00:16:29] Chris: And I think it’s the clinician’s way, I think it’s the hospital’s way of getting on with it. And, hospitals can be wonderful places, but they can be also alienating and inhumane in some respects. If there is no evidence of a cancer, that it’s get on with it, actually. I’m left feeling completely depleted by the experience and there have been all these consequences, and now I don’t have a career and, spent the last three years dealing with this. And so the ramifications of a diagnosis can be completely life-changing.

[00:17:00] Kate: Absolutely. When you walked into the role of CEO at the Leukaemia Foundation, did you understand the gravity of how impactful a diagnosis is on one’s life?

[00:17:11] Chris: I’ve had sort of some exposure to this, but I didn’t really understand the longer-term impact of treatment. I think I thought about it as a survival, non-survival spectrum. And so there was a continuum with those two things being at the extreme and, extreme ends. And, hadn’t really thought about treatment ,and this is the advantage of talking to people who have gone through treatment, right? This is why you’ve got to get your information directly from people who lived experience.

[00:17:42] Kate: Do you think that comes from your background too, as a social work?

[00:17:42] Chris: I think it does for me. I’ve held a number of CEO roles now and, one of the things that I always try to do is be close to the people that we’re trying to service, so the service users. Because it keeps me, on a day-to-day basis, you’re problem solving, fixing things, developing strategy, dealing with boards, dealing with government, so there’s a whole lot of things that you’re doing. And if you’re not careful, you can forget about the reasons for being, you can forget about the reason that you are there in the first place. I’m generally not someone who can forget that ’cause it’s in my DNA. But it’s important to be in the sort of cut and thrust of daily activity. And it’s important to be reminded when you’re pretty exhausted by it all, that you’re doing it for particular reasons. And so being in touch with people who’ve lived through it and people who are going through treatment you know, on every part of the continuum is for me. ‘Cause it, just helps me sort of understand what we might need to do next to deliver on their needs.

[00:18:42] Kate: And then do you think, is there something in particular that you go, “Oh, that kind of keeps me up at night that I want to improve for people living with blood cancer”?

[00:18:50] Chris: Oh God, so much. The thing that really bugs me in this space, and it bugs me in other areas of health as well, but particularly bugs me in blood cancer, is the sort of regional metropolitan divide. When you look at the outcomes of people in regional rural Australia, they’re worse than the outcomes in their brothers and sisters living in metropolitan areas. And then when you think about people from a non-English speaking background who find it hard to access services. People, our First Nations people, who have issues with trust around services and all those sorts of things. It worries me that we still haven’t fixed those problems, not just in cancer or blood cancer, but right across the board. I’m not suggesting it’s an easy fix. But if we’re not having discussions with those people. We’re not talking to regional and rural communities. We’re not talking to oncologists and haematologists in those communities and we’re not understanding the challenges, then we are never gonna solve these problems.

[00:19:44] Kate: It’s really true and I think that having your leadership come in, is it’s, that’s really has been a prominent voice and direction is that you wanna increase the access for those regional and remote communities. And do you feel that we are moving towards helping put a footprint into that space and to, I guess, bridge the gaps a bit more?

[00:20:03] Chris: Kate, I have a cunning plan.

[00:20:05] Kate: Do you? I’m not surprised.

[00:20:07] Chris: It’s a big undertaking and we are gonna need government money and a lot of support from the community. But I actually think the community’s up for it. I think one of the things I do with my families I spend a bit of time in rural Australia, regional Victoria. I have a sister that has a farm out there and, so every Easter we go there, so we just eat the whole, whole time. That’s what we do. But one night is reserved for people in the community who come in.

So friends and families of friends, et cetera. And you spend a bit of time talking to them and you get a really clear understanding as to what they’re missing out on and what their struggles are. And I think there are things we can do in those communities that would make a difference. Maybe not all of them because it would be incredibly expensive, but if we think about population density and where we might place some of the Support Services, then yeah, I think there are things we can do.

[00:21:00] Kate: So secrets to come and to unfold as to how we can support those little areas. And I think we definitely are making moves towards that ’cause we’ve recently partnered and, coming under the umbrella of Leukaemia Foundation has grown with taking Bloomhill under our wing. And that’s a fantastic service. Do you feel that you would like little areas and little spaces around Queensland and in the remote areas? Is that what you’d..?

[00:21:27] Chris: Yeah, that’s my intention, we start to think about… You know, our heritage is regional and rural Australia in particular regional Queensland. The reason we exist is because people in the regions couldn’t get the sorts of supports that they needed when their children or they were in treatment in metropolitan tertiary hospitals. And not much has changed actually. There are a few more tertiary hospitals. And I know the Gold Coast has one, for example, and is dotted around. But the thing that is true regardless whether you’re in a metropolitan area or whether you’re in a regional area. Once you’re discharged from hospital, the only support you have are the supports from your family and your GP. And good luck getting in to see your GP.

[00:22:09] Kate: And having a GP stay in that area.

[00:22:12] Chris: Not many do that is huge churn. And those GPs, as we know are worked pretty hard, getting in to see one’s hard work. And then for those people that don’t have families, they’ve got nothing. So creating a community of support for people is really important.

[00:22:29] Kate: And the basis of Leukaemia Foundation has always been community. You know, we really started from that grassroots up from the community. And you said before you think that the community’s up for a challenge. And I absolutely agree with you with that. And in order to make things move and make things heard within government is community and the noise.

[00:22:49] Chris: Yeah. Correct. And I think, absolutely need to be knocking on government’s door like, we’ve survived because of the generosity of the community for 50 years now. That’s great. But we have to work within a particular funding envelope and we offer great services to people. And I think now we need to be clear that actually the community just can’t do this on its own. It does require government support to get these services out there. And I think government is looking for potential solutions for those communities. They know that there are real issues for people living in regional rural Australia. And I heard some comment the other day that, whereas someone said to me, “Why don’t they just move?” Where do people think we’re gonna get our vegetables and our meat from? And there are whole industries that exist in those communities to support all of us, actually. So it’s important that those communities do get support so they can thrive.

[00:23:41] Kate: Absolutely, and there is that saying, I mean, my family’s background is beekeeping and they always say that, Australia would stop if it wasn’t for the farmers and for the land. And if we don’t respect and look after the people on the land, we come to a grinding halt very fast.

[00:23:55] Chris: Yeah. And I was just referring to this Easter thing with my family and I was working in mental health at the time and every year I would go there and they would talk about the number of suicides in those communities, ’cause there wasn’t any support. There were complete lack of services and the distance was problematic, et cetera. These things are unacceptable and they can be fixed. And so when you have cancer patients who say that some cancer patients feel so completely unsupported that they wanna end their own lives. Like we can fill that space. We can occupy that space and make sure that people are getting the support they need.

[00:24:30] Kate: And I guess the message with that, I think that we do it, we are doing some great things now. And we have so many services that people can access when they return home. And I guess, would there be a message in the healthcare providers? ‘Cause I know where we get unstuck if we don’t hear about people go, “Oh, why didn’t you call me earlier?” And it’s that there is that barrier that if we don’t know about somebody that’s being diagnosed, we can’t offer support.

[00:24:54] Chris: Yeah, that’s right. And I think we could spend a fortune on advertising and still miss some people. ‘Cause different people tune into different things. So, how do you let people know that you exist? And I think it really about becoming a part of the life of the community. You’ve gotta really become a part of that community and you’ve gotta have visibility with that community for people who know you exist. And I think easily done, but we will always probably miss people, unfortunately.

[00:25:21] Kate: Absolutely. It’s all about timing, isn’t it, for that person. I mean, I know that in my role as a case manager, I had met people at the hospital, but it’s not that right timing at that point, they’re really fighting for their life. They’re fighting for survival. So to let another voice in at that time, it’s just not perfect timing. But meet them a year and a half down the track. They’re absolutely open to that support.

[00:25:42] Chris: Absolutely, and it was one of the first conversations I had when I came into the role. Actually a guy’s gonna be doing a bit of work for us, but he was a recruiter in the organisation, and he reached out to me and through LinkedIn and said, “Congratulations. I’d really like to have a talk to you about timing and what you guys do.” And I said, “Yeah, okay.” So we did that and described exactly what you had just said that he was in the middle of it just being diagnosed, two young children under the age of three. And we walked through the ward and introduced ourselves and left a brochure and he said, “Mate, it was the last thing on my mind.”

He said, “I was just trying to stay alive. My parents had just come out from the UK.” So timing is really important. All of these things, it’s a bit like, after a bush fire or a natural disaster, you send in all the counsellors and people are like a rabbit in the headlights. They’re not ready for debriefing, and the services have gotta be there, over a longer period of time. So when people suddenly realise the extent of what’s happened to them, they can get that support. So yeah, timing’s critical.

[00:26:47] Kate: And I guess with what you’ve kind of alluded to as your thought and your plan and your strategy and wish for LF in the years to come. Do you think that providing those services in those community is about helping with that timing. As you said, you gotta be there when the timing’s right?

[00:27:02] Chris: Yeah, correct. And I don’t think anyone is, there’s nothing there. So you go back home from Brisbane or Melbourne or Sydney, and you go back to your own community and then you’ve got six-monthly follow-ups, 12-monthly follow-ups. What else is there? So, once people have gotten out of the hospital and they’re out of the acute phase, I think that’s when they start to think about things and really allow themselves to digest what’s going on. And yet there’s no one there to support them through that process. And I think that’s the beauty of Bloomhill. It is a community of interest around cancer and some people are there for therapy. Some people are there to do the gardening. Some people are there to serve in the cafe. Some people are there to be with other people. All of that is therapeutic, right? Men aren’t great about talking about their feelings. But they’re happy to pay the wall and they’re happy to do the garden, and they’re happy to serve in the cafe and socialise with other people. And, for some people who don’t have families, this stuff is really important. But even if you have a family, it’s with a whole lot of people who understand and the organisation understands what you’ve been through. You belong to a very interesting and important club in lots of ways. And so I don’t necessarily think it’s just about face-to-face counselling and support. I think there is a role for monitoring. I think there is a role for constantly assessing and all those sorts of things, but there is a role around purpose.

[00:28:31] Kate: Yeah, it’s my favourite word.

[00:28:33] Chris: And after you’ve been through, and there’s no other way of describing it, the shit storm of a diagnosis and treatment. After you’ve been through all of that and then you’re unable to work or just find yourself with a lot of time on your hands, and you don’t have a sense of purpose. You can’t go back to your own career. Things are very different within your family context. Things change significantly for people. Got to be a way for them to be engaged. And sometimes it doesn’t need to be through counselling or therapy or sometimes it’s about being in a space where you’re sort of understood and appreciated and you can just be normal.

[00:29:10] Kate: Yeah, and being able to identify with people that “I’m not alone.” Like, although the journey’s for – people hate that word – you know, the overload, the journey’s different for everyone.

[00:29:20] Chris: Yep.

[00:29:21] Kate: It’s quite similar in some sense. There’s something you can connect with and that we are connected beings.

[00:29:26] Chris: Yeah. Correct. Correct. Cancer is traumatic, and it’s a trauma experience essentially. And, how do you recover from that? And there are lots of different ways that people will stabilise in that context. And for us, and for me, our job and my job is to find the ways that work for people in order for them to recover. And return to a way of operating in the world that gives them fulfillment and gives them a sense of purpose.

[00:29:53] Kate: And would you say that’s what the Leukaemia Foundation does quite well at the moment?

[00:29:58] Chris: I think it does it in a one-dimensional way. The only reason it’s one-dimensional is because we’re limited by the amount of money that we can expend on these things. I think we do our best to meet people’s basic needs, and I think we do have psychosocial support. We do have a whole range of things people can access around, information around clinical trials and we fund research, and we have academic links and we know who’s who in the, sort of, haematological world. And, so we can provide that sort of advice. And we know blood cancer pretty well or the 120 different types, and we provide people with information. But there is that sort of existential bit that I think we only gently tackle. I just want to jump in head first and tackle it, in a way that’s a bit more comprehensive for people. And I think the Bloomhilll sort of way of operating works largely very well for that community. Not and not for everyone, works well for that community, and it’s valued by the people who participate in it.

[00:31:00] Kate: Yeah. Look, I think it’s amazing to take people along the journey and it’s as, you’re right, like it’s not for everyone. But for sometimes, it is the road that you have to travel. And it’s about giving people the understanding of the why we do, why we would be moving towards the direction or why we think that’s an important service and or important avenue we need to invest in. And hopefully, people understand the reasoning to it. And also I think once they begin to see that the feedback from people and what people are gaining from a different service and a different provision. And so I guess, having someone listen to this podcast, you know I am mindful of time, and you are a bit very busy man. I’m sure you have somewhere to jet off to soon, but I guess if someone’s listening to this podcast, what would you want them to know about the Leukaemia Foundation?

[00:31:47] Chris: I want them to know that we are there for them in whatever shape or form that takes. And then increasingly we will have a number of more strings to our bow. Always make sure that we are there for people. I want them to know that we actually do care about what they’re going through and what their families are going through. We do care about that. And we do want to make their journey a bit less traumatic. And that we are here for them regardless of whether they’ve just been diagnosed or their family member or friends just being diagnosed. We are here through the whole journey, regardless of what happens and they can rely on us. And that there are obvious limitations to what we can do when we’re working on those things. But, to not hesitate to call and I think a lot of people just worry about calling services cold. But I think the people in our triage area very warm people. And I think often people are put at ease around that phone call. So..

[00:32:47] Kate: I can’t tell you the amount of times I, because I used to lead triage and sit on that number, and I would hear people go, “Oh my God, it’s taken me so long to call and I’m so glad I finally have now spoken to someone and taken that brave step.” You could almost hear, it’s palpable at the start of the conversation, is where their anxiety’s sitting and then you can speak with them and sometimes it could be an hour, sometimes it could be 15 minutes, but you can almost feel it just dropping in them.

[00:33:13] Chris: And I used to have this as a psychotherapist too, that people would come in and they’d say, “It’s taken me six months to walk through the door.” And I said, well, “Why is that?” and “’Cause I didn’t know what was at the other side. I didn’t know if my problem was big enough or bad enough or..” It’s interesting how people delay getting help because they just don’t think they’re important enough or they’re too worried about what we’re gonna think. You know, none of us in the health sector think it in those terms. We are here to, you know, absolutely support someone through their journey. And, so, you know, knowing that people are safe to do that, hoping people know that they’re safe to do that is really, really important for me.

[00:33:54] Kate: Absolutely. I’m gonna flip it and ask if a healthcare professional is listening, what would you want them to know? ‘Cause they’re important part in this cog.

[00:34:03] Chris: Yeah, I want them to know what it is that we do, and not everyone knows what we do, so they know elements of what we do depending on the interaction they’ve had with us. So, really understand the range of services that we provide and know how to access those services. You know, there are a whole lot of people and we’ve opened our accommodation up for, well, at least in Queensland for some people with different types of cancers, not just blood cancer. And, you know, some of the conversations I’ve been having with clinicians, you know, I didn’t know that you did that staying in touch with us, so you know what we have available. And I think the other thing is that we do want to work collaboratively with existing service providers and we impart a suite of things that are available for people. So, stay in touch with us.

[00:34:46] Kate: Absolutely. I do tell so many people and it, I’m gonna tie it back to the word timing, is that when I do talk to healthcare professionals and they say, “Oh, but people don’t need you right now.” We absolutely know that it’s about timing of that referral and that connection point. But sometimes when healthcare professionals do refer a patient and then we are able to connect and whether that person is on our database and they get our education seminars or brochures or just updates from the Leukaemia Foundation. That I’ve had many people go, “Oh, I know that that social worker or that doctor referred me back two years ago. But now I’m open to making that change and making that connection.” And it’s at that point that we can begin to intervene. And it’s that referral that that social worker thought about almost not doing two years ago, how it’s then making a difference for someone two years on.

[00:35:34] Chris: Yeah, that’s right. And I think that connection in the hospital is pretty important because I don’t think people are ready for it at all. I don’t think they’re ready for a connection with the, but when you think about the journey in the hospital. Its social workers, nurses, specialists, medical staff, general medical staff, you’re inundated with people, needing to take things, help you. And we are a community based organisation, but if we can start the relationship at that point and just say, “I know you’re not gonna need us now, but there might be a time when you do, when you get outta here. This is how you access this. This is where we are. And don’t think about it now, but just have a read of this and call us when you need to.” And that’s it. You know, and so they’ve had a personal touch point with someone who works at the foundation, and it will come back to them when they’re in a more reflective, less urgent space.

[00:36:25] Kate: Absolutely. Couldn’t say it better myself. But I wanna say thank you for your time ’cause I know you’re an absolutely busy man. And I really want to thank you for leading us, leading us in the direction of where we need to go in this space of blood cancer. And also, you hold that space, you hold that space for us as employees, but also you’re holding space and creating space for people living with blood cancer. Not just the patients but their families, loved ones, and communities. So, thank you.

[00:36:51] Chris: Oh, thank you, and it’s an honour and a privilege to do this sort of work, and I was just saying this last night to someone who was considering a career in this space, that it is an absolute privilege to be let into the lives of people. And I know that a lot of people say this, but it really is when you think about, we all learn from our interaction with people. And you know, I certainly have learned a lot from patients over the years and from their families. And so it is a privilege, it’s a privilege to be led into what is often the darkest time in someone’s lives.

[00:37:21] Kate: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much.

[00:37:25] Chris: Thanks, Kate.